Extending network between two buildings

[Brian Raynor]

Need some help with extending network between two buildings.

First some facts:


Buildings are about 1000 foot from one another
One is a commercial building (church - about 15 years old) other is a house (church office - about 50 years old)
Other than a few trees, there is mostly line of site view between the two
Telephone company has wiring directly between church and house with two pair (4 wires) available for our usage (yes, this has been approved) - does not connect to CO
While 2 pair are available, currently one pair is being used to extend an analog phone to the church off the office's PBX, so in reality (unless using HomePNA that might be able to "share" the line), only one pair is available. At some point we might want a 2nd analog extension in the church, meaning that we'd need to use the 2nd pair, so HomePNA might help with that.
Primary requirements are reliability, ease of installation, and cost (in that order)
Looking to achieve at least the equivalent of a 10Mb Ethernet connection (100 would be nice, though probably unlikely without lots of $$$)


I've considered the following:


HomePNA - Probably the best option IMHO - in theory could use a single pair (possibly same one analog extension off PBX is using) to extend to church with up to 10 Mb. However, main issue here is that these bridges, especially the 10Mb ones seem almost impossible to find...

HomePlug - Almost definitely won't work due to distance and more importantly, due to the almost certainty that house and church are not electrically directly connected, but go through at least one transformer (or more likely due to density in the neighborhood and difference in age of building) multiple transformers)

Wireless - Line of sight between buildings is probably about 800 foot, so a bit on the edge for wireless... Also would require specialized directional antennae I believe, not to mention mounting (sub optimal location on church to where we wish the network to go). And would be very concerned about reliability at this distance.

Direct Ethernet over 2 pair - Last option I can think of would be to use the 2 existing pair (since Ethernet only uses 4 wires) to connect between the building with standard 10/100 Mb switches. However, doubt that this would work well as the wiring isn't CAT3 to CAT5 standard between the buildings (thick copper telephone burial cable). Not to mention that one of the pair is already in use for a PBX analog extension (yes, assuming networking worked, could use VoIP ATAs and FXO adapters to run extensions over Ethernet (which I have done in the past), but not desireable).


Are there any other options? Which option seems the best of these?

Also, assuming HomePNA is the best option here - where can I get the 10Mb bridges from? Almost have disappeared entirely...

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

[cszeto]

Have you tried looking at eBay for the HPNA equipment?

[oldtimerbob]

Your best option would be to run a new indoor/outdoor cat5e or better cable between locations for your network and leave the phone company cable for telephone line usages.

Good Luck

[cszeto]

As long as it can be accomplished within the $$$ goals as stated...

[TDK]

Brian,

Is the "HPNA "you noted first similar to:
http://www.rad-direct.com/App-Ethernet-extender-copper.htm ?

New here, sorry I don't get the acronyms.

[Sooner Al]

How about two broadband accounts (if available in that area), one for each building, and a VPN between the two LANs over the VPN?

[Brian Raynor]

Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions. A little more about the application:

We really can't run new line between buildings as that overall would be far too expensive. The run is at least 1000 foot, through hard South Carolina clay and we'd need to cut through the church driveway to bury the cable under it. So we're looking for anything possible not to have to run additional cable.

Also, while I still think HPNA would work, Linksys Tech Support stated that it is only rated at 100 foot (not 1000), though everything else I have seen specifies 1000. I did check on eBay for the devices and found some, though I'd need two and its hard to find auctions for two (at a reasonable price) at the same time (don't want to buy one and get stuck and can't find another, also like dealing with the same person/company for both ends).

Getting two broadband lines would technically work, but that would add about $80 a month (since they'd be paying business rates) to what they are already paying, be a slower connection (1 MB/s), require an additional router, and then setting up VPN servers at both sites. If these two buildings were located across the city, then that would probably be the ideal solution as anything else would probably be cost prohibited.

Now the RAD-Direct link posted looks like exactly what we need. The only thing it might not provide would be allowing the same pair to also be used for phone (it doesn't say either way). Its also though a bit pricier than what we were looking for.

I did a bit more research and finally came across the following:

http://www.netsys-direct.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-200EKIT&cat=9

This looks like exactly what we're looking for. It works over a single pair of copper, can reach distances of up to 5,000 foot (at 5 MB/s) or 3,200 foot (at 15 MB/s) and can share the pair with another phone line (and presumably an analog single line telephone extension off a PBX - will email them to verify). SO I think this is exactly what we need. Was a small bit pricier than what we were hoping ($279 for both ends), but since this is purpose-made for exactly this application, it is probably the best fit.

There's also a cheaper version (roughly half the cost) that operates at up to 1 MB/s at 5,000 foot. (link is http://www.netsys-direct.com/proddetail.php?prod=nh-300eekit).


Thanks guys for all the help and suggestions. Much appreciated. If we move ahead with the device I mentioned, I'll let you know what our results are.

[TDK]

Brian,

You may want to check out this site regarding direction antenna(s).

http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/directional-wireless-antenna.php

They have some very attractive prices, great variety and good illustrations as well.

Basically, hook one up to a wireless access point or router at each building and you have better laptop access to boot. Some interesting router setup no doubt tho.

And considering the application, you would think "the heavens" would cooperate.

Good luck

[cszeto]

With the specialized equipment, two things to check on:

1. Protection from lightening
2. Warranty from lightening

One poster had very bad experiences in the lightening area/department, but I am unable to locate the thread.

With the eBay angle, you might consider contacting the "store" sellers (a.k.a usually "power sellers") to see if they have more than one device to sell, otherwise the HPNA equipment is interchangeable - just keep track of 1.0 versus 2.0 from a throughput speed standpoint.

[netsol53]

how about something like this?
we do quite a bit of conventional networking (& unconventional)
http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/Airport/Primestar/Primestar.html
i've never tried this wireless setup myself, but a friend has, he says it works fine.
would certainly fit your budget.

[cszeto]

Not for the faint of heart or short of patience...