network of 2 98's and 1 xp screwed up

[QQQ QQQ]

I'll try to make this short: Got 2 W98SE systems and 1 XP Pro system, they are hooked togather by a linksys hub. I have set everything up in TCP/IP and they were working fine. I have not used the 98systems for some time, but when I last did thet all saw eachother and did what they should do. Now after nothing has been changed, the systems do not see each other, I have done internel pings of the Nics and they all work,have checked power to the hub and plugs of the rj45's and they are all good and powered. Thare have been times when one system or the other would not see the network and I could hit f5 a few times and then they would all "see" oneanother,why I would have to do this is beyond me also, but now nothing when I hit f5. I have them all in the same workgroup,each has it's own name, each pings itself. The 98's I can ping each of from a 98 system,but not the XP system, but this tells me the hub is working anyway. I have static IP's set on all of the systems so it should not be an IP lease renew problem. So why is it that 1 day they work then the next they don't and if they do I need to refresh (f5) to get them to see each other? I know this is a big shot in the dark , but I'm open for anything right now. Thanks.

[Greenstead]

This is my standard checklist:
- All PCs have TCP/IP installed.
- All PCs have Netbios over TCP/IP enabled.
- All PCs have the same workgroup.
- All PCs have a unique computer name.
- ALL PCs have network shares defined directly under c:.
- ALL NICS are on the same subnet (typically IP 192.168.0.* subnet 255.255.255.0).
- MS Client and file & printer sharing are checked on each NIC.
- All NICs have their node type = broadcast (check with Ipconfig).
- XP's ICF firewall is permanently disabled.
- All 3rd party firewalls are disabled (until connection is working).

You've done most of these checks but it might be worth just running thro it all again.

If they all have suitable IPs on the same subnet then the only thing should stop you talking to XP is a firewall somewhere. Old 3rd party firewall s/w is best uninstalled and deleted.

Your F5 thing sounds like a Netbios broadcast problem. Do any of the PCs or NICs or hub have power management making them go to sleep?

[QQQ QQQ]

Thanks for your reply and checklist, I have no firewalls in place and XP's is off(first thing I checked)I also have no power management protacols running running on any of the systems.
But about the NetBios: I am of the understanding that XP dosen't like NetBUI, so are you telling me you DO run XP in your networks with NetBUI installed ?
If i'm getting this wrong it's because I am still learning the network protocols and management.
I will go over your checklist and see what I find, thanks.

[Greenstead]

I do not use Netbeui. I use only Netbios over TCP/IP. However you can run IPX/SPX over TCP/IP or Netbeui over TCP/IP. You can run any or all of them together on a network with XP PCs. Netbeui is not installed on XP by default but it is on the XP CD and can be installed from there. M$ do not support Netbeui on XP (i.e. they will not help you with it). On all versions of windows you only need Netbios over TCP/IP to provide file and printer sharing.

I suggest you check the node types of each PC to ensure they are set to 'broadcast' especially the XP PC.

[QQQ QQQ]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, I'm no expert on any of this and may know what your talking about but not know the term.

You stated:- All NICs have their node type = broadcast (check with Ipconfig).
I suggest you check the node types of each PC to ensure they are set to 'broadcast' especially the XP PC.

When I go to Start/Run/type cmd and get a DOS prompt, I then type in ipconfig and I see nothing about Node Type,

What I get it is this:

Eathernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IP Address . . . . . . : 169.254.189.22
Subnet Mask . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Defauld Gateway . . . . :


PPP adapter "my ISP Name"

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IP Address . . . . . . :216.**.***.** dont want to give that out
Subnet Mask . . . . . :255.255.255.255
Defauld Gateway . . . . :216.**.***.**


I see nothing about node types .

I also do have Netbios over TCP/IP ticked

And I missunderstood you about Netbeui, I do not use Netbeui or SPX

I am also very new to XP Pro so I do not know how to get to the protocols for the network bindings and settings like I know in 98, so if I'm looking in the wrong place's, would you be kind enough to walk me to the right doors for entry?

Thank you for your time and effort.

[Greenstead]

On the broadcast question:
On the XP system at the command prompt type ipconfig /all
- In amongst the output you will see node type.

You should be able to do similar on the 98 PCs with winicfg (I don't know because I don't have 98).
- It would be useful to check the node type on the 98 PCs.

You check the bindings in XP by going to Network Connections -> Advanced (on menu) -> Advanced Settings. Highlight the connection and see the bindings. Make sure you have TCP/IP checked against Client for MS Networks and File & Printer sharing.

On your other problem (cannot ping the XP PC):
- If you want you can post the LAN IP and subnet of each PC. (You seem to be using an unusual subnet looking at the XP LAN NIC).

- Are you using any internet sharing software (e.g. ICS or 3rd party product).

[QQQ QQQ]

I think I have screwed up something else now. Below is the IP config info from the XP system and the 2 98 systems.
I notice that the Node Type is unknown on the XP, and I have no idea where to find it to set it .
And on my 98 systems under my TCP/IP Properties/NetBIOS tab, the box "Iwant to enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP is grayed out! And of course I have not found out how to ungray it yet.

System 1 is XP Pro, system 2 and 3 are 98SE:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

D:\Documents and Settings\Da Boss>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : RANDY-WORK
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Linksys NC100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
#2
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 169.***.***.222
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

PPP adapter MY ISP NAME:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : WAN (PPP/SLIP) Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-53-45-00-00-00
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 216.**.***.57
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 216.**.***.57
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 216.**.***.4
216.**.***.3
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sys # 2:



Windows 98 IP Configuration



Host Name . . . . . . . . . : RANDY_HOME

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . :

Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast

NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No

NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No



0 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.

Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-00

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :



1 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : AOL Adapter

Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-61-6F

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :



2 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : AOL Dial-Up Adapter

Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-61-70

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :



3 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : Linksys LNE100TX Fast Ethernet Adapter (LNE100TX v4) NDIS5 Driver

Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-03-6D-1E-A7-0A

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 169.***.***.132

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
sys # 3

Windows 98 IP Configuration



Host Name . . . . . . . . . : RANDY

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . :

Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast

NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No

NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No



0 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : Linksys LNE100TX Fast Ethernet Adapter (LNE100TX v4) NDIS5 Driver

Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-03-6D-1E-A7-9B

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 169.***.***.73

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :



1 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.

Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-00

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :



2 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : AOL Adapter

Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-61-6F

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :



3 Ethernet adapter :



Description . . . . . . . . : AOL Dial-Up Adapter

Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-61-70

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . :

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

Primary WINS Server . . . . :

Secondary WINS Server . . . :

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :

Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I edited the names of each system, but the format is the same as how they are, just subed another name, and the *** in the IP's also edited, but the #'s correspond with each other but differ from each system of course. All 3 have the very same workgroup name, MYWORKGROUP.
And I no longer use AOL, thats just leftovers.


Maybe I just need to start all over, do you have a link or anything to show me what bindings and protocals I need to set on the 98 and XP systems to get them all talking to each other in TCP/IP? That may be less work for you. Thank you for checking back on my questions and for your answers.

[QQQ QQQ]

"Are you using any internet sharing software ?"

No, I only use 1 system for internet at this time, I have 2 phone lines and internel modems hooked to sys # 1 and # 3, no sharing.

[Greenstead]

I'm assuming the ***.*** in your IP addresses is the same on each PC - if so things looked OK on that front.

That problem with the greyed out boxes is a real problem that needs sorting. You need Netbios over TCP/IP enabling. I don't have 98. I don't know how to solve that.

The XP node type unknown is a worry. I am not sure what the effect of that is. I would hope it results in XP defaulting to broadcast but I cannot be sure. You cannot manually set node type in XP.
If you are prepared to apply a patch to your registry I have one that will force it to broadcast. But as you may know incorrect changes to the registry can require a re-install of XP. I can assure the patch works on a good registry but its your risk. I had this node type problem recently and got the patch from a Microsoft engineer and applied it on my system and it did the job. Its up to you.

You might try taking these specific questions to the Microsoft forums where an MS engineer might help you.
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/

Re your question is there a guide to starting over.
I have posted here how to check the bindings on XP. I don't know for 98 - somewhere under networks in control panel I believe.

There are two other possible solutions to avoid the TCP/IP and node type problems.
1. Use an LMHOSTS file on each PC. This provides the name resolution that is needed and works with fixed IP addresses like you have. Theres a guide here:
http://practicallynetworked.com/networking/mmr_fileprint_share.htm

2. Use a different protocol (on all PCs).
e.g. NWlink ipx/spx. It is in XP and can be installed easily. It might be worth a try. I used it for 6 mths and it works very well.

Really though you should get your PCs sorted out with Netbios and TCP/IP.

[QQQ QQQ]

I know that there is a regedit that can be done changing a value to =1 in XP , but I have forgotten the reg path to do it. I would like to take a look at it if you will post it please.
As for the ***, yes they were the only things I changed in the IP's the rest were the real #, just don't want someone snooping with a head start on my network.
Thanks for the links, I will have a look at them and get back to you in a day.

[Greenstead]

Here is the content of the registry patch.

Copy to a text file, name as B-node.reg. Double click it to patch the registry. Or manually edit the registry. Ignore the --------- and remove any line breaks the forum has put in.

-------------
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\NetBT\Parameters]

"NodeType"=dword:00000001
---------------


Note, this entry does not exist by default in the XP registry. Heres a link to read what it does:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q160177

Also note, incorrect changes to the registry can require a reinstall of windows

As I said I have used it on my XP PC and no probs (it fixed my node type problem which had been set to peer-peer by a DHCP server).

Good Luck.

[Rimi]

It looks like you're not using a router and only a standard hub. You mentioned that everything worked okay until recently so I'm suspecting that your ISP has started blocking NetBIOS port 139. This is important to your setup since you are using the ISP as your "network sharing" point. In other words, all your requests to "see" the other PCs are going through your hub, all the way to you ISP and then coming back to you hub. This happens because your gateway is set to the ISP so all network functions go all the way to the gateway to get processed. That does not happen when you use a router since the router becomes the gateway for your network requests. I think even if you use NetBEUI (this is NetBIOS over BUEI), you still won't get a connection to the other systems since again the ISP will be blocking that protocol (or may not route it at all). Your ISP may have started to block NetBIOS over TCPIP because they may have gotten complaints from other users that people are trying to access their systems (NetBIOS lets anyone on the network "see" other PCs, even one that they do not own).
So you many need to get a router to isolate your network from the ISP's so get sharing to work again. The router does not have to be a NAT type router, but if you do use a non-NAT router, you will need to setup the routing tables in the router yourself using the IPs you got from your ISP. Your ISP may/may not help you in setting that up, but since your are paying for your IPs, I'd think they should. The local router should also be setup to allow NetBIOS over TCPIP on the local LAN side (again assuming you're going to use a non-NAT router).

[QQQ QQQ]

I do not see how my ISP has anything to do with this. I use a dialup ISP and if i'm online or off the systems are not working togather, and inorder for me to get online I must command the systems to dial. I don't use auto dial, so if I am off line and things were as you say and there is no connection to the ISP active, the systems should work togather. I guess I could be wroung about this thought, but I would need more info to beleave that is the case, but thank you for your input,it may be of use to me or others under another situation.

[Greenstead]

I was just reading Rimi's post.

I think what Rimi is describing is the possible consequences of what I call a suicide topology (which is not the case here). That is when someone (and it is quite common) connects their PCs to a hub and also connect the hub to a broadband link. In this topology if you enable sharing on the PCs then the shares are broadcast to the internet on the NetBT ports and the kiddie hackers have a party.

QQQ - I don't think you have this worry with your configuration. Its not the cause of your current problem.

btw If you ever consider a broadband connection the first thing to do is buy a cable/DSL NAT router as Rimi advised.

[QQQ QQQ]

Thank you for the path to the regedit, I made the change and even though running ipconfig /all it still shows unknown for the node type, the network is working all in TCP/IP. The setting was "8", 8 = h-node (query name server, then broadcast) changed it to "1" and it works.
I still have to find out why in the 98's TCP over Netbios is checked but grayed out, but that will be another forum and string.
Once again, thank you for your time and effort checking back on my string, it's people like you who make a Help Forum work,1000 points to ya, Qx6

[Rimi]

QQQ QQQ:
I guess I shouldn't reply to stuff like this when I'm not feeling 100%, LOL (I suffer from migraines). I "assumed" a broadband connection since I saw the IPs as 169.x.x.x. (which is an valid IP address on the Internet) and the you were using a hub (automaticlly assuming getting 169.x.x.x from an ISP via broadband). After reading your original post I realized I goofed. As Greenstead said, if you decide to go broadband....LOL. BTW, don't you have problems accessing Internet sites that use 169.x.x.x, since your network would assume that IP subnet was on your local net. But then you may never need to reach that subnet (first 3 octets match) so I guess that's a moot point.

As for the Win98 "NetBIOS" grayed out thing, I think it stays grayed out since Win98 assumes NetBIOS ove TCPIP whenever TCPIP is the only protocol. If you install another protocol that uses NetBIOS (like NetBEUI-NetBIOS over BUEI, Banyan Vines' famous protocol that MS "stole" and made it their MS LanManager, grin), that checkbox will become available. Sorry I added to the confusion (I do that a lot BTW).

GreenStead:
"Suicide Topology" huh? I like it! Mind if I use that term? First time I've heard it called that, but that is exactly what it is.